#Water margin

[grand-theft-carbohydrates]

the absurdity of the plot of the Chinese Classic is in inverse proportion to how boring the title is.

-magical monkey takes a monk to india to pick up his library books, fighting demons along the way : Journey to the West - 108 demons reincarnated as bandits find brotherhood and redemption through the power of Extraordinary Violence: The Water Margin

-fanfic author writes a historical RPF that becomes so popular it ruins a politician's reputation for the next 700 years: Romance of the Three Kingdoms

-at this point the fandom is cooler than the actual canon, i need at least two more degrees to explain what the plot is: Dream of the Red Chamber

[lionofchaeronea]

Lei Heng, the "Winged Tiger," Kuniyoshi, between 1845 and 1850

[ryin-silverfish]

Keisei Suikoden: Genderbent Water Margins

This is probably Part 2 of the "Obscure Vernacular Novels Spotlight" series. Dunno if there's gonna be a Part 3, because most obscure novels stay obscure for a reason. Which is often formulaic boredom. And I'm only picking out the fun ones.

(Also, my main interest is still Ming-Qing vernacular novels, but since I'm doing a final project about Keisei Suikoden for this semester's class, I may as well use the post as Draft 0.)

...

"Is this the Edo Japan equivalent of FGO making historical figures and deities into anime girls?" I thought, when I first came across a Chinese summary of the novel several years ago. 

Then I learned that the author, Kyokutei Bakin, has indeed appeared in FGO as an anime girl. 

As the title suggests, this fan novel of Water Margins has made all the male 108 heroes into heroines, and the female characters into guys...but the changes go further.

Specifically, Bakin has localized the entire setting, rewriting the storyline so that it took place in Kamakura Japan instead. (Hey, it's even contemporary to Northern Song!) Kinda like how Konami's first Suikoden game put the 108 heroes into a medieval fantasy setting.

Which means: 

All the 108 characters got their unique Japanese names, sometimes sharing one or two characters with their original inspirations but not always. 

Daoist characters became Shinto priestesses, yamabushi, and onmyoji. 

Beef dishes that appeared in the original novel were replaced with poultry and fish because Edo Japan had a ban on livestock meat.

The Genpei War and other rebellions in its aftermath were featured in the backstory of a bunch of female bandits, who belonged to defeated clans, and many of the 108 heroines were associated with the Minamoto Clan. 

Almost every character got genderbent. Which means the damsels in distress from the original novel become bishonen in distress, female bandits would kidnap men and force them into marriages, etc.

The rough outline of the story goes like this: an arrogant female official, while trying to find the famous priestess Murokai (fem! Heavenly Master Zhang) in the Kumano mountains to dispel a plague, released the 108 vengeful ghosts of unmarried courtesans mentioned in the Manyoshu anthology, who reincarnated into our 108 heroines.

After a timeskip, in the capital, the Shirabyoshi dancer Kamegiku (fem! Gao Qiu) has gained the favor of Emperor Go-Toba, both of whom were real historical figures.

During his reign, women skilled in various martial arts were selected to train in the Female Warrior Training School, and after offending Kamegiku, one of the head trainers, Ayaosa (fem! Wang Jin) was forced to flee with her aging mother.

During their escape, she encountered the spunky tomboy daughter of a village chief, Fusenryu Komorode ("Komorode the Diving Dragon", fem! Shi Jin), and taught her the eighteen martial arts after defeating her in a duel...

We then got to Otatsu of Hanagara (fem! Lu Zhishen), my favorite of the genderbent characters——A plump, dark-skinned lady with a fierce temper and love for sake, able to effortlessly move a 45 kg mortar around.

She became a fugitive after she killed the mean usurer widow and salted fish vendor, Kaina, with a single punch, to save the male courtesan Yasanosuke and his mom.

Then she was made a Buddhist nun and took on the name Myotatsu, but got expelled from her first temple for acting exactly like the original Lu Zhishen: getting drunk and eating meat, fistfighting a Jizo statue outside the temple gate and bringing the entire small shrine down, and beating up the nuns who tried to stop her.

"I'm adept at explaining the nature of cause and effect: Fuck Around and Find Out." ——Myotatsu, right before rescuing the village head's pretty son from a forced marriage to the local bandit queen 

The novel does have a main plot: while Kamegiku was playing the temptress in Kyoto, Hojo Masako ruled as the "Nun Shogun" in Kamakura, and had essentially usurped the Minamoto Clan by placing her son, Yoriie, under house arrest and later assassinating him.

Thus, instead of robbing Cai Jing's birthday present, the 108 heroines were kidnapping Princess Sanze, the youngest daughter of Yoriie, to protect her from the Hojo regents and restore Minamoto control.

Sadly, we don't know how the plot concludes.

Bakin had gone blind in his old age, relying entirely on his daughter-in-law to transcribe his oral accounts, and since he was focused on finishing his most famous epic novel, Chronicle of the Eight Dogs Heroes (Nanso satomi hakken-den), Keisei Suikoden had taken a backstage and is never finished.

Some highlights:

-Sakurado of Torano-o (fem! Lin Chong) got fucked over because Kamegiku wanted to take her husband for herself. Her husband, Nansei, is a pretty twink monk and one of her disciples. He's timid, delicate, and has no interest in women, but loved Sakurado platonically and was in turn supported by her, who never looked down on him.

-Fushishiba (fem! Chai Jin), a.k.a. Oritaki no Sho, is descended from a member of the Taira Clan who owed a debt to Yoritomo, and was granted various honors and titles after the war.

-fem! Chao Gai's name is Kocho, which translates literally to "Little Butterfly". It might be a pun, since Chao and Cho sound kinda similar. And yes, she did lift an entire stone pagoda and carry it to her village to protect the villagers from the local yokai.

-Fittingly enough, "Sasuno Miko Medogi" (fem! Gongsun Sheng) is an onmyoji of the Abe lineage, who can manipulate Shikigami to summon winds and clouds.

-Oohako (fem! Song Jiang) murdering male! Yan Poxi is...surprisingly cathartic, not gonna lie. For context, Yan Po was not genderbent, but she abused Oohako's generosity to try to set her up with her son, a Joruri actor named Gidakichi, in an attempt to leech off her money.

-And while she's unwittingly offering patronage to their performances out of social obligation, Gidakichi was having an affair with her assistant, Adako (fem! Zhang Wenyuan), and being a stain on her reputation.

-After a very awkward and uncomfortable night at their house and Gidakichi being a creep to her, she accidentally left a pouch containing Kocho's letter of gratitude (because she alerted them to an incoming arrest) in their bedroom.

-Gidakichi found the letter and tried to use it to blackmail her into not only approving his marriage to Adako and covering the full expense, but also giving him the 300 gold mentioned in Kocho's letter (a gift she rejected).

-At which point she finally had enough and stabbed the guy to death. As you can see, the plot beats are mostly the same, but I like it better than the original.

-Why? Because 1) Yan Po's intent to leech off their patron is made a lot more obvious, and 2) instead of Yan Poxi (understandably) having no intention of sleeping with Song Jiang due to his cold neglect, and Song Jiang getting pissed at her for that?

-The dynamic is reversed. Gidakichi had no love for Oohako, and the feeling was mutual. Yet when she was pressured into spending the night in the same room by his mom, she was the one who kept a polite distance while he tried to force himself on her.

-Takeyo (fem! Wusong) is said to be 6 ft tall, with a dignified appearance that resembled the famous Tomoe Gozen from the Tale of Heike. Before she met Oohako, though, she was also short-tempered and prone to violence.

-Because Japan doesn't have tigers, the tiger Takeyo killed was a tiger cub gifted to the local lord by emissaries from Joseon Korea, which had escaped captivity upon reaching adulthood.

-Just like Wu Song, she avenged her sister, Butayo's murder at the hands of Kiresuke (male! Pan Jinlian) the abusive freeloader husband and his mistress, Okei of Seimonya (fem! Ximen Qin).

-Not gonna lie, the original Pan Jinlian and her Plum in the Golden Vase incarnation are both fascinatingly terrible people. But, just like Gidakichi, Kiresuke managed to outdone her through sheer creep factor during his failed attempt at seducing Takeyo and pinning the blame on her.

-Bakin generally tried to tune down the gore and cannibalism in Water Margins, as well as the slaughter of innocents and random passersby. Even Rikiju (fem! Li Kui) is slighty less of a indiscriminate murderhobo, and the targets of her killing spree were limited to samurai guards.

-That said, they still killed the corrupt official Ikken (Huang Wenbing)'s entire family by setting fire to his mansion, and preserved his head in a jar of sake after Rikiju killed him.

-Instead of receiving the three divine scrolls from the Mystic Lady of the Nine Heavens, Oohako received a single scroll from Benzaiten.

-Because of the aforementioned lack of tigers in Japan, Rikiju killed 4 giant "mountain dogs", a.k.a. Japanese wolves with unusual stripe patterns on their fur, after they devoured her elderly mom.

Final Thoughts

I'm not a fan of most genderbent AUs because oftentimes, it doesn't add anything meaningful to the original premise, or alter the character personality too much to the point of losing all resemblance to their counterpart.

Keisei Suikoden, however, is a pre-modern example of a genderbent adaptation done well.

The heroines are as badass, colorful, and violent as their male counterparts, the entire premise has been localized in a manner that's both funny and interesting, and the rewrite + deletion of certain story beats have actually removed many elements of Water Margins that do not sit well with a modern audience.

Also, I'll totally play a Keisei Suikoden RPG game, if the heroine designs stay true to the novel and they aren't all made into pretty anime girls. 

A two -volume English translation can be found on Amazon, together with the Chronicle of the Eight Dog Heroes. There's also a free digital scan of the original Japanese print by the Harvard-Yenching Library.

[darkfalcon-z]

by all account Jin Guanyao did some pretty deplorable things, but if you compare him to the heroes from classic Chinese literature, like of Song Jiang (from Water Margin) he comes off as pretty nice, reasonable guy - see Song Jiang's modus operandi is framing people for crimes (he has his guys commit those crimes, including child murder and mass slaughter), often getting the families of whoever he wants wants to join him killed (executed by authorities) or at least losing their homes. And yet everyone is like "yeah, Song Jiang, the Timely Rain, now that I have nowhere to go I'll join you, let me suck your dick" (as opposed to all the time people captured and almost killed him before they learned who he is and went "why didn't you say you are Song Jiang the Timely Rain, we've almost eaten you, let us suck your dick" - drugging people and using their meat as a filling for buns to sell to and drug more people is surprising common business model in Water Margin). So if Song Jiang gets to be a hero, why can't Jin Guangyao fans make him into one (without changing his character).

On the other hand how would Jin Guangyao measure up if Song Jiang was his opponent?

[journeytothewestresearch]

I wanted to ask, is it quite likely that Sun Wukong killed heavenly soldiers or is it more pure speculation? I sent this ask before, but my old account is having problems with the messages and asks I send. If not, then I hope my question doesn't come across as me being impatient.

To my knowledge, the novel doesn't mention Monkey killing any gods, only demons, spirits, animals, and humans. Any divine figures, be they deities-turned-spirits or holy mounts, are usually reintegrated into the celestial hierarchy and not killed. Also, I don't recall the novel describing Wukong fighting the regular rank-and-file soldiers. The 100,000 soldiers mainly man the heavenly nets creating the cordon around Flower-Fruit Mountain. Monkey only fights high-ranking officers. It's like that in a lot of Chinese fiction. A common trope in Romance of the Three Kingdoms (c. 14th-century) and the Water Margin (c. 1400) is that the appearance, scream, and/or fighting ability of a great warrior is enough to hold hundreds or even thousands of foot soldiers at bay while he battles an opposing officer.

But realistically speaking, the Great Sage would have mowed through the regular soldiers like a sith lord through younglings.

[artistmitchy]

THE WATER MARGIN

[killingdoll]

Some Yan Qing trivia I’ve managed to find:

• As a Chinese, Yan Qing’s name is presented as ‘Surname + first name’, so ‘Yan’ (燕), which means ‘swallow’ (a kind of bird) is his surname and ‘Qing’, meaning ‘blue’ or ‘green’ is his first name. Swallows are very fast and Yan Qing is known to be very agile.

• Yan Qing’s tattoos were his master’s idea. His master, Lu Junyi adopted Yan Qing when he was very young and taught him most of his martial arts skills. One day, Lu looked at Yan and thought the young man had such fair and beautiful skin, so he called a tattoo artist to do Yan’s tattoos.

• Yan has the character ‘義’ on his back. While this character means ‘righteous’, it’s also part of his master’s name: 盧俊義 in Traditional Chinese or 卢俊义 in Simplified Chinese.

• Yan shared a deep bond with his master prior to his leave. Not long after that, Lu Junyi got poisoned and died.

• Yan Qing was portrayed by Chinese actor Yan Kuan/Yan Yikuan in the TV show Water Margin (2010).

(Kinda bummed they didn’t keep his wavy hair and went with the traditional topknot)

• In the TV show, Yan had the characters ‘忠义’ (loyal and righteous) tattooed on his back by the famed courtesan Li Sisi.

[digitalagepulao]

Sweeney Todd?? In my Chinese classical novel??

[nemainofthewater]

Best character surnamed: Song

Come and vote for the best characters with the same surname!*

What does best mean? It's up to you! Whether you love them, are intrigued by their characters, love to hate them, or they're your '2 second blorbos whose personality you made up wholesale', these are all reasons for you to vote for your favs!

*note, the surnames are not exactly the same in all the cases, as often there will be a different character. I am, however, grouping them all together otherwise things got more complicated.

Propaganda is very welcome! If I’ve forgotten anyone, let me know in the notes.

This is part of a larger series of ‘best character with X surname’ polls’. The overview with ongoing polls, winners, and future polls can be found here

[quitealotofsodapop]

So... nor to bust the bubble, but the Black Bull Demkn may not be PIF's. There's a small section in the original boon where DBK actually cheats on his wife and leaves her for another woman. It's actually kind of pathetic how PIF spiraled after that since she'd presumably just lost her son, too. I know they definitely are still together in the aus and shoe, but there is one Canon instance that may have resulted in an illegitimate calf

I assume you mean the situation in Journey to the West were DBK and PIF briefly separated cus DBK decided to take Princess Jade Face as a lover for her inheritance? Thats regular Tang-era marriage problems (multiple wives were considered socially ok).

Yeah in the canon book verse its kinda bad timing on the Bull's part.

In the LMK verse however, these two are madly devoted to one another no matter what. I feel like if Jade Face ever appeared, her character would be altered to reflect that - either as a mututal bestie who got mislabled as DBK's lover overtime or as someone in a polycule situation with them.

The Black Whirlwind/Iron Ox is also one of the *human* characters in Water Margin. Those are just nicknames despite the odd concidence.

Black Boy (who've I've named "Huoshan") in "Later Journey to the West" is canonically PIF and DBK's second born son - having taken more after his mom in powers, but his dad in appearance.

[suikomizunosoko]

【読書感想】岩波水滸１７回

（数か月前のメモとメモを頼りに感想絵）

痺れて倒れてる仲間たちにど正論を吐いて去ってゆく楊志

しっかり楊志のせいにする人足執事たち

放浪するも路銀はないし腹は減るしでやさぐれる楊志さん、ついに無銭飲食を働く

無銭飲食奴が有名な殿司制士(?)だとわかったとてそこで許す曹生の察しのよさよ…

こんな立派な人がやさぐれでこんなところにいるなんて、何かのっぴきならない事情があるに違いない！的な？

曹生に二竜山に入るのはどうかと勧められて即「のっとっちまうか！」になる楊志の思考回路がほんとダイナミックすぎる

さすがゲッター乗り

楊志が魯智深の足に引っかかる描写は吉川英治のやつかな…？

全部説明してくれる魯智深さん助かる

この時点で孫二娘と張青名前だけ出てきてたんだな

毎回張青が見つけて蘇生させてるんだな…

曹生の案に乗る二人だけどこの時点で解釈がズレてたら面白いななどと思ったり

最初からとうりゅうを殺す前提で持ちかけたのかどうかとか…

あまりにもとうりゅうが瞬殺すぎて可哀想な気持ちになった

済州府で堂々と「ちゃんとやってるんですけど〜」って言えちゃうかとうすごいな…

入墨入れられても不貞腐れたりしない感じも意外と好感度高い

部下に「少しはかわいそうに思ってくれよ」って言ってるのもなんかかわいい

捜査官だしかとうがだんだんシブめの刑事に見えてきた

兄貴を焦らして弄ぶ弟かわいいな

[grand-theft-carbohydrates]

lu zhishen beats a man to death in the first chapter he’s introduced and he is uncontested the kindest, most morally upstanding person in this entire book.

[ladyzerodark]

Yessssssssssss I cannot wait to start reading.

[little-lamb-lyosha]

No hay protagonista más chetado y más protegido por el guión que Luo Bingge

Excepto Song Jiang

YA PERDÍ LA CUENTA DE CUANTAS VECES ESTÁ A PUNTO DE SUFRIR UNA MUERTE ESTÚPIDA SÓLO PARA QUE APAREZCA ALGUIEN MÁGICAMENTE DICIENDO "ay de casualidad no han visto a mi bestie mi bro mi hermano del alma song Jiang al que llaman "the timely rain" 🥺" Y TODOS LE EMPIEZAN A MAMAR EL WEBO DIOS MÍO

[hadescavedish]

There was a Chinese version of Black Sails vibe literature if anyone was curious about it (be warned, it had misogynistic elements, it is ancient folklore, it also has a very tragic ending, their leader sold out the rebellion in the end):

There was a monk character called Lu Zhishen often reminded me of Vane in BS interpretation.

[giraffemolerats]

Me: Man, Dragon Ball plays pretty fast and loose with its inspiration, but once you know the source material you notice some cool parallels!

Guy from an alternate dimension where Dragon Ball is based off of "Water Margin" instead of "Journey to the West": Hey man I'm gonna be grilling some burgers for us, can I use the cheese you've got in the fridge?

Me: Sure